Find here Daxue Talks episode 79. In this episode, Camille Xu, partner at one of China’s largest law firms, provides her insights on setting up legal guardians as an expat family in China.

Full transcript below:

If unforeseen circumstances happen, what documents have to be prepared for defining guardian for children?

In a will you can define a guardian for you children. That guardian we are talking about is permanent guardian, meaning this person will take care of the child for a long term until the child is 18 years old. Normally in the will for expats they will define their brothers or sisters or very close family members as the permanent guardian but when we are talking about – you are living in China – it normally has a gap for the permanent guardian to be able to get into China to fulfil their obligation as the guardian. For example for visa issues, for notification issues, they are just not aware of the accident, so that may be two months or even longer and so what we recommend to foreign families is that they, in addition to the permanent guardians they also define one or two or three temporary guardians living in China to take care of the children for their immediate needs.

So, what we do is we help our clients to establish the temporary guardian documents. You should choose several temporary guardians. Those are people that you are sure will be living in China longer than you do. They will be staying in China for a long time and of course those will be the trustworthy friends to take care of your children and you should prepare a set of documents saying that you entrust them to act as your temporary guardian and they accept to act as your temporary guardian. So, we help our clients to enter into temporary guardianship documents as well as wills if they don’t have one in foreign countries, but majorly we focus on the temporary guardianship documents.

What do these documents look like and what kind of information should they include?

This document looks like an agreement actually. It’s an agreement between you and the temporary guardians, the chosen ones. In a document it says that I am the parent of whom and I entrust whom, whom, whom as my temporary guardians. And temporary guardians should also sign on and say – I accept, I will take on the responsibility to take care of the children if something happens to you. In this document we should also include some of the important obligations of the temporary guardians, for example the immediate information to the consulate and to the permanent guardians of the accident happening in China. So, once something happens, the temporary guardians should inform immediately the permanent guardians and the consulate. Of course, the contact details of the permanent guardian and the temporary guardian is listed in that document. We also define the transfer of rights and obligations of the temporary guardian because we are talking about the permanent guardian coming into China and pick up the kids, so at that point of time the temporary guardian doesn’t have to take care of the children anymore and they don’t have right to keep the children any more. So that is clearly defined in the document.

It’s like ten paged agreement to both parties and in addition to the temporary guardianship document we also prepare a power of attorney for the expat families. It looks very similar but in the power of attorney it’s more like for daily regular needs, for daily life. Because the deed of temporary guardianship is for the severe cases, when both parents pass away or lose capacity, but for the power of attorney it’s more a regular cases, it’s for the case when people are not able to come back to China. For example today with COVID-19, many people are locked out of China, they couldn’t come back to China but if their children are still in China, they need someone to take care of their kids. Then using this power of attorney, the person can prove that I have the right to take care of the children while the children are still in China because there is a legal document made. So, that’s like an agreement – and it’s written in both English and Chinese and in case any authority is questioning for example the Chinese police or the neighbourhood community is questioning – why are you keeping these children in your family? You can easily prove to them that – that is because of the entrustment by the parents.

What is the process of getting those documents done and how long will it take?

For the temporary guardians documents it quite simple actually. What we require is just the ID, the passport copies the contact details the telephone number, email address of all the temporary guardians and permanent guardians and of course of your family members, you and your spouse and the kids. So that’s all the information we need, but normally it takes a long time, maybe several months for the expats to choose the guardians, temporary and permanent ones. But once you have that done and you give me all the necessary documents, we could prepare the file in two weeks and we can give you the deed of temporary guardianship. And if you would like, we as lawyers could help you witness the signature of that document and we will sign on it to prove its validity.

Any questions? We will find an expert to answer them. Drop your questions in the comments or send us an email – dx@daxueconsulting.com.

This article Daxue Talks transcript #79: Family law in China as an expat: Guardianship is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

In this China business vlog, our guest Camille Zu, partner at Yingke law firm, tells us the legal processes of entrusting a temporary or permanent guardian of a child, such as power of attorney and what the agreement looks like.

Jump to questions:

• 0:52: If unforeseen circumstances happen, what documents have to be prepared for defining guardians(s) for children?
• 3:18: What does this document look like and what kind of information should it include?
• 6:35: What is the process for getting those documents done and how long will it take?

Daxue Talks is a show powered by daxue consulting, a china-based strategic market research company founded in 2010! With Daxue Talks, you will stay up to date with all the latest business updates in China.

This article Daxue Talks 79: Process of entrusting legal guardian in China is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

Find here Daxue Talks episode 78. In this episode, Camille Xu, partner at one of China’s largest law firms, provides her insights on setting up legal guardians as an expat family in China.

Full transcript below:

According to Chinese law, who becomes the guardian of a child if parents are suddenly unable to care for their child?

According to the Chinese civil law actually the first person who becomes the guardian of the child will naturally be the grandparents, maybe it’s not very similar to the Western way of thinking. As far as I know many expats, they would like to have their brothers and sisters, those are the uncles and aunties to become the heirs of the child, but according to the Chinese law, this is not an option. Actually according to the law the grandparents would become the legal guardian if there is no will in place. It’s for sure that the grandparents will take care of the children. The second category would be the elder brothers and sisters of the children if the elder brothers and sisters are already adult. That means they are already above 18 years old. The third category would be the Chinese and other close relative, or the neighbourhood community or the Chinese organisations, naturally become the guardian of the child.

Are the Chinese rules you mentioned applicable to foreign families?

Yes, you might question that hey I am a foreign family, should I apply to the Chinese laws? And the answer is yes because we are talking about the accidents, unexpected tragedies while you’re living in China. So, China will be the residence place of your family while you pass away and according to the Chinese law for the foreign families. The residence law or the nationality law could both be applicable to the person but the court will probably choose one law which it seems more favourable to the child, but in reality the Chinese courts will always choose the Chinese laws as applicable law because Chinese court wouldn’t know the foreign laws. So yes, the Chinese rules and Chinese laws will apply.

What if the expat family already has a foreign will in place defining the guardian, is it valid in China?

Well if the expat family already has a foreign will in place that’s very good, it’s a good step. As I talked in the last episode, the foreign will is not directly recognised in China for many many reasons: language barriers, stability, the application of laws. But on the guardianship part, we believe that because we’re not talking about assets, the guardianship part the Chinese law would normally recognise the guardian defined in a foreign will but you should make sure that your foreign will is duly translated in Chinese language and we do recommend that you have this will legalised with the Chinese consulate in your home country. Have a stamp on it and it will be recognised in China.

Any recommendations in choosing the temporary guardians in China?

Yeah, I mentioned first of all you should make sure it must be a close friend. You should make sure that those are the trustworthy people, loving people who will take care of your children, responsible people – that’s the first one. Then, we recommend you to choose what’s better if you have those friends – for example the Chinese citizens or mixed couples. Those people because you are sure that they will be in China for a long time – because I have some cases that people have picked up close friends but those families leave before the one who make the guardianship documents. They leave China earlier than the person making the guardianship document. So that makes the document invalid because we are talking about – you should make sure that this person is always in China when you are not, so we recommend you choose someone that you are sure will be living in China for a long time.

The last recommendation is that if you are not sure, you should pick 1 or 2 or 3 backups because in that case you could make sure that your children will be under right protection even if the first choice is gone, then you have second choice and third choice.

Any questions? We will find an expert to answer them. Drop your questions in the comments or send us an email – dx@daxueconsulting.com.

This article Daxue Talks transcript #78: All about legal guardians as an expat family in China is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

This episode features Camille Zu, partner at one of China’s largest law firms and an expert in personal legal matters for foreigners. Learn about legal guardians for expats in China and what expat families can expect in China when switching guardians.

Jump to questions:

• 1:05: According to Chinese law, who becomes the guardian of a child if parents are suddenly unable to care for their child?
• 2:28: Are the Chinese rules you mentioned applicable to foreign families?
• 3:32: What if the expat family already has a foreign will in place define the guardian? Is it valid in China?
• 4:37: Any recommendation in choosing the temporary guardians in China?

Daxue Talks is a show powered by daxue consulting, a china-based strategic market research company founded in 2010! With Daxue Talks, you will stay up to date with all the latest business updates in China.

This article Daxue Talks 78: Residing in China as an expat family: Legal guardians is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

Find here Daxue Talks episode 77. In this episode, Camille Xu, partner at Yingke law firm, shares her expertise on legal concerns surrounding establishing wills as a foreigner living in China.

Full transcript below:

What is the process and cost of getting a will done in China?

The process of getting a will done in China is like this: first of all you should find a lawyer to talk to and to let the lawyer know how would you like to distribute the assets, what’s your family status and how would you like to define guardianship issues in your will – you should talk to your lawyer. Then, the lawyer will design the written will in both Chinese and foreign language for you according to your thoughts and the lawyer will also make sure that the contents you are putting in your will are in line with Chinese laws. And that could be the end because in China we recognise the written will, but what we recommend is always to have a follow up step as to go to the notary public office to have your will notarised, because after writing down your will you can already sign it and you can already put your fingerprint on it, but it’s better to have someone to witness this will and according to the chines law the best way is to have it witnessed by a notary public.

What would happen is that there will be two notary publics to act as a witness and there will be an inquiry process with you. They will ask you – hey how old are you? What’s the purpose of you being here today? Are you healthy? Are you in clear mind? And you are doing this will but you make sure that you’re not deceived or forced by anyone, and the notary public will record everything on a paper and the other thing is that they will make a video record of all the process because it’s not just a paper. The notary public will help you to establish a video recording of the whole process of making the will to make sure that everything is done by yourself voluntarily and not forced by anyone, with a good status. And afterwards you will get a paperwork with a stamp by the notary public, as well as a DVD so that this will is completed and it would not be challenged anywhere in China. I think this will also be valid in foreign countries because it is a very good proof to show the whole process while you are making a will.

So that is the whole process. How long will it take? It depends for clients how long for them to make their mind, but after all the documents are prepared, they make their mind. The lawyers part would take like 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 month to have a will written and notary part would also take like 2 weeks. It’s not very long. And the cost as of today would normally vary from 12,000 renminbi to like 20,000 renminbi depending on the amount of your assets in China. If you have a very complicated, very large amount of assets then it would be more expensive but if you don’t have much, one apartment – some bank accounts, its normally 12,000 renminbi the cost.

Theoretically speaking say that someone has 1 million renminbi sent in his or her Chinese bank account. If this person passed away unexpectedly, how could the heir withdraw the money in an account?

It’s a very good real-life example, yes that might happen to a lot of expats in China. If you have bank accounts and you pass away, first thing is that your heir must have a document, a written document and as I said from the last question. Whether a foreign will would be recognised, that’s the first thing. If you just bring a piece of paper to the bank, the bank probably wouldn’t be able to confirm whether it’s the right document, it’s the right person to be authorised to take out your money. So first of all, the person who is handling that should prove that he is the heir. He is heir, so a will would help to clarify this issue.

The other question is that – how many heirs will there be involved in handling this bank account? Maybe in your will you have defined several heirs, your daughter, your wife – they should both be able to handle that. In that case what we recommend and what probably the bank would request is that you go through a probate process in China, a probate process normally carries on with a notary public or the court. So, you should bring the will and go to the notary public and to make sure that who should handle which part of the matter – for example the bank account or the real estate and make things clear with the probate process and if a document is stamped with the notary public or with a court, then this document would be accepted by a Chinese bank and you can withdraw the money.

So we are talking about a large about of money like 1 million renminbi – but if you just have minor savings in Chinese bank accounts, for example just like 10,000 renminbi – not that much, there are simplified ways that maybe you can write down your bank account and password and keep it in a secret box and when your heir sees that box, he/she could easily withdraw the money from the ATM machine. But if we are talking about large amounts of money then you should have a will and you should go through a probate process to be able to transfer that money.

If someone doesn’t have many assets and have only been living in China for a short period, do you believe this person needs a will? In what cases do you recommend making a Chinese will for foreign residents of China?

A very, very good question. Because we are talking about estate management and because I know there are many expats, they are living in China for a short period or indefinite period, they don’t know how long they will stay, they’re just working here and they don’t have – they are not going to buy an apartment here or they have just minor savings in China – in that case I don’t think they really need a Chinese will because it costs and it takes time to do that.

Those who I recommend will definitely have a Chinese will – those will be the person first – they will be in China for a long time. They know that they will be living here for like 10 years or over 10 years – 20 years. So that’s the first category.

Then the second is mixed couples – so if you are a mixed family, if you are marrying a Chinese – then you need a Chinese will because involvement of Chinese laws would be much more important than pure foreign families and if you are having real estate in China, you must have a Chinese will, because we are talking about dealing with the Chinese real estate bureau in future. You have your property deed under your name, after you pass away only the Chinese real estate bureau could change your name on it and they only follow the Chinese laws and Chinese wills. So, if you have real estate in China you must have a Chinese will and if you have large amount bank savings, for example like over 1 million renminbi, then you should consider having a Chinese will. Other than that, I don’t think that it’s necessary for you to have a Chinese will.

Any questions? We will find an expert to answer them. Drop your questions in the comments or send us an email – dx@daxueconsulting.com.

This article Daxue talks transcript #77: Are Chinese wills needed as a foreigner living in China? is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

In this episode of Daxue Talks, we ask Camille Xu, partner at one of China’s largest law firms, who is the rightful heir when someone passes away unexpectedly, and other concerns surrounding foreigners and Chinese wills. Find out whether or not you should head to a notary public when establishing a will in China and the best legal practices when marrying a local as a foreigner.

Jump to questions:

• 0:52: What is the process and cost of getting a will done in China?
• 4:27: Theoretically speaking, say that someone has 1 million RMB saved in his/her Chinese bank account. If this person passed away unexpectedly, how could an heir withdraw the money in an account?
• 7:28: If someone doesn’t have many assets in China and will only be living in China for a short period, do you believe this person need a will? In what cases do you recommend making a Chinese will for foreign residents of China?

Daxue Talks is a show powered by daxue consulting, a china-based strategic market research company founded in 2010! With Daxue Talks, you will stay up to date with all the latest business updates in China.

This article Daxue Talks 77: Inheritance in China: Foreigners and Chinese wills is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

Find here Daxue Talks episode 76. In this episode, Camille Xu, partner at Yingke law firm, shares her expertise on legal concerns surrounding inheritance and wills as a foreigner in China (learn about Chinese labour laws).

Full transcript below:

According to Chinese law, if someone without a will in place passes away, who will become heir?

According to Chinese laws, there are two levels of statutory heirs – the first level would be parents, spouse and children. The second level would be brothers and sisters and grandparents. The Chinese law says when someone passes away – all the living heirs in the first level would equally share all your estate left behind. If there is no one living in the first level – for example you don’t have parents living, you don’t have spouse or children then the second level of people will be your heir. That is your brothers and sisters and your grandparents.

So let’s take an example, if you have three million renminbi left as your estate assets to your heirs and you don’t have a will and you have your mother, your wife and your daughter living – those three people will equally share the 3 million renminbi and everyone will get 1 million.

Note that in Chinese culture we sometimes believe that it’s natural to give all the money to the children or to the spouse, but people sometimes neglect that in fact the parents is also a legal heir and they have rights too. So if you don’t have a will, legally speaking if you pass away, your parents will get a major part of your estate, and maybe the parents doesn’t want your money and they are old, they don’t care, but if they don’t have legal documents neither, what will happen is that your part will get to your parents and when your parents passes away those part of assets will again get into an inheritance circle and heirs of your parents, that would be their children and probably would be the brothers and sisters of the first died person – will get involved into the inheritance issues. That’s how many inheritance disputes occur in China and so you should be aware that you need to have a will to make things clear and to avoid this kind of things happen.

Does Chinese inheritance law apply to foreigners or should foreigners follow the law of their home country?

That’s a very good question, it’s about applicable law. Many foreigners think that I’m a foreigner and Chinese laws should not apply to me, but we are talking about the case is when you pass away in China, so China would be the residence place of the law. According to the application laws the residence law would probably be the applicable law for the inheritance dispute. Another thing is that it depends on the location of the assets. First, we are talking about living in China and we’re talking about your assets in China. So, if you have bought real estate in china and for example if you have a major saving in a Chinese bank account, then it should and Chinese law will apply, because when you are dealing with those properties you are dealing with Chinese authorities and they will not look at foreign laws, they will only recognize Chinese laws, but if you are talking about your assets in foreign countries, in England, in USA – then the foreign law will apply.

What if someone already has a foreign will in place, can this person use this directly or does he/she need a Chinese will?

Actually, the foreign will is not directly recognised in China, you should remember, I’m not saying that it’s not recognised, but it’s not directly recognised. First of all – very simple question – there is a language barrier. We are talking about when you pass away – your heirs if they show a document in a foreign language, no one in China will be able to read it, so that’s the first thing.

The second thing is that this document needs to be verified – what to be verified? First of all, the Chinese authority would make sure that this document is really signed, made by the person who died – that’s the first question. Then they should make sure that those documents when people are making this will – he is not forced by anyone or deceived by anyone – he’s under a clear mind-set status to make this will. It’s very difficult, very tricky to prove that because we are talking about something that you pass away, and the third question is that as I mentioned applicable law – because when you’re doing a foreign will, normally you will follow the foreign laws, but when you are dealing with Chinese property then probably the Chinese law will apply, then it could cause the invalidity of the foreign will. So, for those reasons we do recommend that you have a Chinese will established in China, because really if you have a foreign will, there will be very, very complicated process for your heirs to realise, to recognise it in China. I’m not saying it’s not recognised, but at least it should be translated, it should be legalised in the foreign consulate and have a stamp and then the content is questionable if you are not making it with a Chinese lawyer. So, I would say the whole probate process for your heir to really get that part of asset will be delayed for years. To my experience the inheritance dispute in China would take very, very long – so if you want an easier life for your heirs, we would recommend that you do have a Chinese document established.

What issues will the Chinese court focus on when assessing the truthfulness and validity of a written will?

It should make sure that the will is really made by the right person that means the signature would be confirmed. Sometimes in China we love to put the finger print on that to make sure that it’s really made by the right person.

The second question is that the Chinese court would make sure that all the contents in the will is in line with Chinese law, that is a very tricky part because if you make something illegal, not complying with Chinese law, the will might become invalid. For example, what happens a lot is that I have an apartment under my name and I think that is my property. So in my will I write, I will give this apartment to my only son George for example, but I forgot that I bought this apartment after marriage and according to the Chinese law, any apartment bought during a marriage relationship would be a joint marital property owned equally by the couple. So, actually my husband has 50% of this apartment and in my will, I say I would like to give this apartment to my only son, so that is an invalid will because I have no right to give 100% of my apartment to my son. My husband holds 50% of it. So, that’s a part that you would like to make sure with your lawyers that all the contents are in line with the Chinese law and there is nothing illegal in that.

 That’s the second question to be checked.

The third question is that we should make sure that the will is made by a person in full capacity that means he is in clear mind, a healthy state, a health status when he’s making the will.

And the fourth question is that, the person who are making the will is not forced by anyone or deceived by anyone, that also happens a lot because if we are talking about a family relationship, when people are getting old, he/she is easily forced or deceived by some of the kids, some of the children to make a will that is not really to his willingness. So, those questions would be verified by a Chinese court.

Can a foreigner change a will?

Everybody can change their wills from time to time, because people change their mind. So according to the Chinese law I think it’s same as the laws of every country. The later will will provide the earlier will – so when you’re making a will make sure that you put on a date on the will so that we can check which one is latest will and you can even change a will from time to time but make sure that if you do a notarised will in China, you should know that – because notarisation procedure is a very complicated and official procedure that you record your will with notary public in China and it will be stamped by notary public. If you did a notarised will then this will will prevail any will of other thoughts.

For example in 2003, I made a notarised will and this year I would like to change a will but I only write on a paper, without any stamp, without anything –so in that case, according to the Chinese law, the notarised will will prevail the later will because you are doing the earlier will with a more formal way.

Any questions? We will find an expert to answer them. Drop your questions in the comments or send us an email – dx@daxueconsulting.com.

This article Daxue Talks transcript #76: Chinese inheritance laws: Key issues as an expat is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

There are many personal legal matters to consider as a foreigner living in China, such as having a foreign will, managing private assets as a foreigner, and wondering if Chinese inheritance law is applicable. In this China business vlog, Camille Xu, partner at Yingke law firm, shares her expertise on these legal concerns as a foreigner in China.  

Jump to questions:

• 0:52: According to Chinese law, if someone without a will passes away, who will become heir?
• 3:23: Does Chinese inheritance law apply to foreigners or should foreigners follow the laws of their home country?
• 4:46: What if someone already has a foreign will in place, can this person use it directly or does he/she need a Chinese will?
• 7:36: What issues will the Chinese court focus on when assessing the truthfulness and validity of a written will?
• 10:35: Can a foreigner change a will?

Daxue Talks is a show powered by daxue consulting, a china-based strategic market research company founded in 2010! With Daxue Talks, you will stay up to date with all the latest business updates in China.

This article Daxue Talks 76: Inheritance law as a foreigner in China is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

Full transcript below:

Hello everyone, I’m Aurelien Rigart I’m the co-founder and Vice President of IT Consultis, I’m from France. I’ve been in China and started this adventure nine years ago. So, IT Consultis is a digital transformation company. It’s a team of 80 people in three countries, which are China, Singapore, and Vietnam. So, we’re helping Fortune 500 and fast scaling start-ups to work on their digital transformation. It can range from eCommerce, from building mini-programs, from building websites, App, integrating systems together, or overall work as a consultant on their digital transformation initiatives.

What are the main requests during and after the COVID-19 lockdown?

I mean what’s interesting is that a lot of people do believe that China is fully digitally transformed. They believe this because they see that there is a deep penetration – like the whole ecosystem, like the usage of WeChat, the Alipay, the JD and so on, but there is a big war right now on traffic ownership where basically brands are really struggling to at the same time survive and gathering the data of the users. So that’s why the concept of private traffic which has never been used in the past, suddenly came in 2019 where brands finally they did understand it – like the more money they were investing, basically they were having a negative revenue. So, they were losing money on any kind of growth that they were having. So, like you’re always looking for growth, I mean in this period of time you’re looking more to survive, but looking for growth – they didn’t understand that if basically they wanted to find other channels, they may need to go back to basically private traffic and private traffic was made easier with basically the WeChat and the mini program. Because – before we started the mini-program, you didn’t have that channel. Tomorrow you’re not going to bring everybody on the website – websites are still important but it’s hard to drive people on a website unless they are already a fan of your brand and they want to see oaky – this particular car, that particular car – so brands that are at a certain level should always have a website, but what really makes a difference is really the capability within a WeChat mini program ecosystem to have the API’s for brands to be represented and to have like the full ownership of their traffic and this has been the major, major change.

In early 2019, when we did an interview with you, you said that the keyword for 2019 would be ‘omnichannel.’ How does it look like for the first quarter of 2020?

Well I would say that – that’s interesting that you remind me of this – it is definitely Omni channel, it is definitely headless, I would say that the keyword for the end of 2019 was really private traffic, so there was like a little bit of a change between Omni channel, basically private traffic is kind of like englobing the entire ecosystem, the entire Omni channel ecosystem and what I believe is that yes – it’s going to push more and more in that direction. Brands are still going to go to TMall, brands are still going to grow on all those marketplaces and they should do it, they should as well make sure that they have good ownership and at least a specific percentage, maybe 10 – 30% of their users coming on their platforms, to make sure that they have like a deep connection, but at some point they get into a fight with the category manager of Alibaba, they just don’t drop their self to zero from one day to another – I think that’s something that we’ve seen over the past and so – Omni channel is still going to be here, private traffic is going to be important, O2O which was probably 3 or 4 years ago is still very relevant, so this is going to continue but the most important is really the digital transformation that we’ve seen that is being operated and what’s interesting is that B2B is really leading the charge right now and there’s a lot of B2B brands in some very specific industrial ecosystem that are largely investing, they’re working through distributors and the problem is that they’re entering a Chinese market where – okay there are the products that are dropped, containers here – and then of course they’re doing all the marketing, they’re doing all the branding, but then comes the black box where they’re going to have one distributor, second layer of distributor and then they have the Alibaba ecosystem and basically those two are kind of like black boxes. So, trying to make sense of what the users wants, how they can adapt their strategy, their pricing points and how there can be some loyalty program and some deeper connection with the users and with their fans and that’s something we’ve never seen in the past and that’s something where we see a lot of players are really investing into that particular area and they need to find ways to create those connections because they’re not made easy. So there’s not like a magic formula where you’re going to say – hey, all of a sudden I’m a distributor, I’m a brand here and I want to target somebody that is here that is going through five layers of ownership and I have the opportunity to reach this person. So, there is no magical solution here, there’s no magic potion to make it up. So, it’s a laborious and really step by step approach using CRM, marketing automation, content, frictionless user experience, it can be app – it can be mini programs, there is many, many ways to do it, overall I’m using and leveraging as well distributors as well is something that is important, but that’s really what we see as a huge opportunity when it comes to the digital in 2020.

In the West, we see that CRM companies like Salesforce or Zoho have been able to expand massively and be titans in their industry. What CRM players are big in China?

First of all, we need to remember that it seems that we’re going to have Salesforce coming to china supposing July 2021, so of course, if things are not moving forward politically or with the virus – we never know when things are really going to happen so I think it is safe to say that those big players are going to come to China at some point, but China has not to wait to create their own ecosystem and you get a lot of start-ups that have been backed up by both Alibaba and Tencent, one of them is Xiaoshouyi which is like a CRM that is backed up by Tencent that is working pretty well, then you’ve got a few ones that are backed up by Alibaba. So, each of them is supporting their ecosystems together and kind of like blocking the other one from their own ecosystem. So, I think it’s something that is interesting and I’m very curious to see because Salesforce has a partnership with Alibaba and so they have announced already that they’re going to launch in summer 2021. So I’m very curious about how this partnership is going to influence basically the opportunity for Tencent and the mini-program to connect with this because we’ve seen over the past that they’re tried to silo those ecosystems, so I think there’s going to be a very interesting conversation, but clearly, there’s a lot of b2b players in the market that are very strong, but as well I know a lot of brands that are using salesforce globally that are just waiting for one thing that when the sales force is coming here, then we’re going to use potentially salesforce commerce and sales force here in China to replicate what they have done globally and to make things easier in terms of maintenance, in terms of programming and so on.

So, I think 2021 is going to be an interesting year to see if companies will want to resist and continue leveraging using what they’ve been developing for years or if they will say okay – let’s follow what global is saying and we’ve seen of course in China a lot of resistance. You don’t actually have the full ownership of the strategy and the governance of the country for those brands, so I think it’s going to be very interesting.

Any questions? We will find an expert to answer them. Drop your questions in the comments, or send us an email at dx@daxueconsulting.com.

This article Daxue Talks transcript #75: China’s digital transformation and CRM players is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.

Our guest Aurelien Rigart, Vice president and partner at IT Consultis, shares his insights on brands’ online survival during and after COVID-19, how digital marketing is evolving, and how he is anticipating a CRM collaboration between western and Chinese companies.

Jump to the questions:

• 0:54: What are the main requests during and after the COVID-19 lockdown?
• 2:58: In early 2019, when we did an interview with you, you said that the keyword for 2019 would be ‘omnichannel.’ How does it look like for the first quarter of 2020?
• 6:27: In the West, we see that CRM companies like Salesforce or Zoho have been able to expand massively and be titans in their industry. What CRM players are big in China?

Daxue Talks is a show powered by daxue consulting, a china-based strategic market research company founded in 2010! With Daxue Talks, you will stay up to date with all the latest business updates in China.

This article Daxue Talks 75: Digital transformation and the CRM landscape in China is the first one to appear on Daxue Consulting - Market Research China.